[DEBATE] Server-Side Configurations for a Hardcore mode

[defunkt]

My community is drawn to 'harder-core' shooters and I wondered if any of the following can be enforced for all clients via server-side configs (without requiring a modded client)...

1. Altered (increased) weapon damage.
2. Minimal HUD (no minimap, no ammo count etc).
3. No hitmarkers (the feedback cross that appears when you hit a target).
4. No friendly nametags.
5. Slower walk and/or faster sprint.

? ? ?

[dolphineye]

There was a frenchie asking for a hardcore mode aswell.

I will make this topic sticky so that you guys can tell us what you expect to be changed for your hardcore mode.
When you all agree on what you want, we will do it for you :p

It should not take long to do however, don't worry. I can be done for Sunday Dec. 11th.

[defunkt]

That'd be very cool if you did consider creating such a mode (or set of options). Given the gaming landscape as it exists right now (with BF3 rampant) this is a niche Casus Belli could thrive in.

6. The ability to separately enable/disable different classes of vehicles (choppers, armour, cars/jeeps). Some communities would favour infantry-only, I personally like what tanks bring to the infantry game but I'm not so keen on air-power, there's never the time and space to represent them authentically.

7. The option to enable/disable supression effects. More the opposite of hardcore but my personal preference, especially when bullet damage is one-shot-kill, is not to layer such things on and let the gamer feel their own sense of danger.

To expand on a couple of points in the OP.

4. If there are friendly nametags they should limited to < 50m and exist to facilitate communication. Ideally nametags and 3D objective markers would exist on a toggle or hold-to-enable key binding.

5. Not really a hardcore thing, I just personally think the speeds don't feel quite right. If the slower speed is a walk I would expect it to be slower. If the slower speed is a jog then I would expect sprint to be faster (relative to it).

[Lhowon]

Seconded on the hardcore mode, that would be great.

The crucial thing, of course, is the damage - ideally a quick burst from an assault rifle to kill, no more than a second or two, at least over medium range.

Otherwise I'd also stress the option to remove the hit indicator, when bullets kill fast there's no real need for it. I'll add more when I next play.

[dolphineye]

For the weapons damage, we increased them by about 30-50%.
We need to test it all together on Sunday (8.30pm GMT+1) to see if it's better for you.

Then you'll tell us if you still want more damage

[Lhowon]

Great, thanks! I will try to make the test. It's 8:30am on Monday here (New Zealand), so no promises, but I should be good.

[dolphineye]

Ouch, indeed.

If it turns out that you can be enough players from Australia/NZ, you may want to arrange your own weekly beta test session, I don't know...

[dolphineye]

@defunkt: Sunday we will need to test the new weapons damages (approx. +30-50%) to see if you feel they are OK or if we still need to increase them for a hardcore mode.

The best I *might* do for Sunday 4th is a basic "harcore" console variable that will disable some HUD.
However, I won't have something that can disable/enable specific classes/vehicles.

[defunkt]

It's very kind of you to even consider such changes, please do not sweat over getting them done by a particular time. I am in New Zealand also but hope to make the playtest.

[Le_Tophe38]

1. Altered (increased) weapon damage.
2. Minimal HUD (no minimap, no ammo count etc).
3. No hitmarkers (the feedback cross that appears when you hit a target).
4. No friendly nametags.
5. Slower walk and/or faster sprint.

Same things, but it seems to be a good thing to conserve the hit indicator : no alls bullets are killing fast... ;-)


The sprint seems to be good (for me) this night (France) even if i can't play a lot of time : i'm not on the map on 20h30... :-(
So I wait for others players experience...!

Edit : I just learn there is a "aura effect", a little bit of "RPGlike" in this version ; in Hardcore mode I suppose ther is NO "Aura effect"...! ;-)

[dolphineye]

OK, I've started working on your hardcore mode.
Bellow is what I've done so far. Tell me if that's OK.

General HUD changes:
- No friendly nametags
- No radar
- No death messages (i.e: telling who killed who)
- No auras information
- No hit indicator (when you hit someone else)
- No ammo count
- Money count hidden

Capture the Intelligence HUD changes:
- Reduced the suitcase icon view distance.
- Removed the "you are holding the intel, keep it blahblah" and "your team has the intel, cover the owner blah blah".

HUD-related questions:
1. Should I show the health/kevlar bars?
2. Should I remove the vehicles HUD?

Gameplay-related questions:
1. Someone talked about removing the spawn-on-the-squad leader for the hardcore mode. Yes? No? Prefer having a poll?
2. Shall I disable the auras system (skills sharing for squad members). Not sure it's technically feasible, though. Yes ? No? Prefer having a poll?

[defunkt]

- Vehicle HUDs should stay.
- I think friendly nametags should be distance based, if you are close enough that you would be able to discern their identity you should see their tag (to facilitate good voice comms).
- I don't think I would have gone as far as making the objective (suitcase) icon distance limited. Ideally such things (along with time/tickets remaining) could be toggled with a key.
- I'm not too familiar with the spawn-on-squad leader mechanic or the aura system, off the top of my head I think they should probably stay in hardcore.

But I would say of all of these settings, ideally all could be set independently so they can all be mixed and matched rather than just Hardcore or Not-Hardcore. You probably prefer to have players know what they're getting but server-ops who pay $$$ like to be able to express their preferences and encourage a certain style of play and it should be apparent that even amongst 'hardcore' players everyone has a different opinion on every option. There's no right/wrong, only preference.

Only had a brief play before work this morning but the new damage levels felt pretty good to me.

[Le_Tophe38]

I quite agree with your proposals Dolphineye, so with the responses of Defunkt, except on two points (as a player on Project Reality): the spawn point and get to Decomposition Systems:
- Spawner on SL would make the game more "nervous", but to be killed would not become a major problem affecting the striking power of the squad, so be sure to cover each other's backs: the "squad play" in some way be smaller, so the game would become less "rich" ... for me of course!
However for the spawn, it would mean it would take another system to choose their spawn points, genre-point rally in the Project Reality (a point that only SL can create but can be destroyed by the enemy if he discovered, and is neutralized if an enemy is within 25m)... Or the automatic creation of several of these points spawns at a reasonable distance of the flag (100m) every time our team is in the area of ​​Cape this flag.
- "Aura System" : for example, a medic can "heal" a man without being next to him, or rather against him is pretty unlikely i'sn't very "Real", no more than a sniper can reduce the spread of weapons of members of his squad close to him ...! So for me this system very interesting version of "normal" mod, and can therefore be an advantage compared to other games, is it difficult to let a place in a Hardcore mode ... Or any small dose, or else within very small!


- In addition, the time to spawn after being killed is too short (always for me): this allows the nervousness in the game but reduces the "squad play", the medic is no longer useful, it has not time to launch a smoke and care, so the tickets falls !

- The capture of the flag also would be more realistic if it was at least 2 players on the same team in the capture zone for this: in addition it would increase the team play ...!


But obviously it's a matter of perspective everyone: it would remove a game very nervous ("Half-life" like) by increasing the squadplay, but it would be create a more realistic game, whith coverage, progression, to secure zone, construction of the attacks, with kits that take full extent: the recon and assault in mind, the SL and the medic withdrawn, the support behind and the sniper covering the entire squad from a long distance .. .
Multiply this by the number of squads to 32 players, add communication via TS3 and you have a magical game play that players do not get bored ...!

(Sorry for google translation... )

[Cellus]

The most important thing in a 'hardcore' mode is to focus on the things that increase immersion. Pumping multiple clips into someone certainly take you out of the suspension-of-disbelief, as well as things clogging you vision. From another perspective, not being able to recognise your team mates or know how much equipment your holding can be the same. So, I would think, decrease health (the obvious one), increase spawn time to give life and death a greater value, remove HUD but make certain aspects available on-call (press a button to see your current mags and anything else you would expect to be able to know on a thorough self-inspection), and make name tags visible but only at short range. I wish there were another way for this last point, and while I'm sure there is it probably isn't feasible within the mod at the moment. Lastly and extremely important the removal of hit markers and kill messages to give a heightened level of tension to every game - did I hit him? is he dead or just waiting for me to move forward? did I just give my position away and he's watching me right now?!

I think removing 'spawn on squad leader' would do terrible things to map balance, and while possible should probably be put off until other matters are addressed (forward spawns, whether capturable or buy/deployable may be required to balance the change).

[5hitm4k3r]

All in all I like the most ideas. Something I do not support so much is to reduce the role of the SL. Using rally points is ofcourse an option to be considered about, but this could also reached on a more realistic way like spawn-APC's on maps with vehicles. The rally points are a good solution for smaller maps like maps with intel game mode. The vehicle spawn would only be possible with a SL in the vehicle - this helps to keep the important role of the SL and makes APC's even more valuable
Some points for de HC mode, that I would like to see:

-Keep the aurasystem, because it is unique to the mod, but reduce the rates of healing/damage etc.
-remove the aura effect on the player himself, so the aura has only influence on other players in the squad -> this should help to force the squad members for more teamplay and stick together
-remove all HUD elements except for the vehicles ofcourse - this keeps players tinking about the situations. A system like in Red Orchestra could also be suitable to check the ammo count but only with an audio message or a taunt of the player himself like "Damn, the mag is empty" or something else
-higher weapon damage
-keep the supression effect, it is something that makes you keep your head down and is the only   indicator to represent danger in a quiet natural way in video games
-remove the case indicator in Intel completely and make the case only visible on the map in the spawn menu -> this makes the ingame map more valuable and demands more communication in the squad
-increase the spawntimes as mentioned above

All these points could be used to create a basic HC mode for the mod. Server Admins can change these settings afterwards, because I agree that it really depends on personal taste.