Mod changes possible?

[PRIDE komar]

"For PR like mod"

[dolphineye]

Hello Awakened

There are some things we can't do either because of technical restrictions or because they absolutely don't fit with the original game design.
However, a few ideas are really interesting but we need to discuss them before.
Others ideas were actually already on our to-do list (see the PR/hardcore mode topic).

What we already got in the game:
  1. "Smoke grenades" (don't see the point in mentionning them actually :p)
  2. "Stamina limit."
  3. "Possibility to use civil vehicles."
  4. "Big maps, at least like PR, for using jets": depends on which maps you play, but they usually are designed for 32+ players.
  5. "Add realistic ballistics" Done in Crysis already (bullets and projectiles have velocity/gravity).
  6. "Heavy weapon has large deviation in case of firing from a hip to avoid Rambo style" Already done.
     MGs need to be deployed (and cannot be ironsighted) to have a low recoil/spread.
  7. "Bullets penetration" Feature already available and currently beging tested out.

What is currently on our to-do list:
  1. Weapon damage is already 2-3 bullets for rifles. We will add a server-side cvar to change the weapons damage (overall percentage).
  2. The HUD elements will be able to be shown/hidden with server-side cvars.
  3. For hit markers, see 2.
  4. For tagnames, see 2.
  5. Command center for orders given by the squad leader (not sure it will exactly be like in PR, though).
  6. "Add mortar" (feature is on it's way for the next patch in January 2012)
 
What we *might* consider later on. Note that we will need at least 3-4 new team members to achieve such features.
  1. "Add Insurgency game mode"
  2. "Improved spawn system"
  3. "Possibility to wear dead enemy cloth for cover operation"
 
What we cannot do because of technical limitations of the Crysis SDK:
  1. We can't do the medic revive thing. It would be in the game otherwize.
  2. "As much players as possible 64 (128)" We can normally have 64 players, but we could not ever test the game with 30+ players.
     Yet, I guess the Crysis netcode won't handle more than ~64 players.
  3. "More destruction of environment" All we can do is having small chunks of the world that can be destroyed.
     However, we cannot have buildings being compltely destroyable.

What we will probably not do:
  1. "Covering system" Not discussed yet. Not a final "no".
  2. "Convert some maps from PR"
     If you want to port maps from PR, you gotta get someone outside the team to do it.
    And they won't be officially supported (=custom maps) as we don't want to steal contents from other games and mods.
  3. "Change sounds for PR or Arma2 sounds" We're currently having someone working on our sounds. Yet, we're still open to proposals.
     But there's no way we can steal content from PR. It's not fair, hence that's a final "no".
 
Questions:
  1. "Add compass and map as in Arma2 or in PR"?
     I never played BF2 nor PR, hence I really do need details on what you mean.
  2. "Possibility to use enemy kits and vehicles"
     Kits? You mean weapons?
  3. "System of damage for vehicles, system of wounds for infantry"
     You mean that we should be able to kill a vehicle's passengers (if applicable)? If yes, then it's already like this.
  4. "Infantry classes" + "Limited kit"
     Don't understand what you expect. Is it what you would like to see as the different classes' loadout?


Cheers.

[dolphineye]

Please, do not all say you're for a PR like mod. Start a poll instead it's way better and it won't kill this topic When the poll will be up, i will announce it so that everyone hear about it.

Thanks.

[Gron]

For PR like mod

[Awakened]

@dolphineye
Preparing the answer.

[parkourman]

@dolphineye

I will answer your questions -
1)Compass - small line on the bottom of screen(In PR),BF2 do not have compass.You can say,where you can see enemy.For example - "enemy APC at South" or "Enemy man at 135 degrees"
 Look at this screen:

2)Nevermind,just an echo of modern PR.In PR how forbidden to use enemy kits.
3)Yes,thats what he means,damage passengers in vehicles.Also another point - penetrate armor(When uses heavy caliber) and damage passanger.
4)Kit in PR - weapon layout.BF2 engine do not allow to use weapon as item.When you die,you drop bag with all of your equipment,not weapon.Also - sense of this suggestion is to make one "Kit" - rifleman(Assault Rifle,no pistol,frag/smoke grenades,binoculars and personnel field dressing(Bandage to stop bleed)).All other items are limited,like Machinegun,pistol,sniper rifles,AT,UGL etc.
Thats makes avoid full sniper teams,like it was in BF2.


Also about content - no sense to convert it.As I said - I can make 3D models,on next year I will start working for AR-15 series(Of course - americans is everywhere =)) )
Also about maps - many maps in PR is an copy of real life places.For exampe - Muttrah City,Ochimachira,Fallujah,Al-Basrah etc.You can find this places in Google maps. )))

I also got some questions for you:
1)Is it possible to make more factions thats 2(US Army,US Marine Corp,Bundeswehr,Russian Army etc)?I means - make some maps like USA vs RA and BW vs RA.

[Awakened]

What we already got in the game:

 1. "Smoke grenades" (don't see the point in mentionning them actually :p)
  2. "Stamina limit."
  3. "Possibility to use civil vehicles."
  4. "Big maps, at least like PR, for using jets": depends on which maps you play, but they usually are designed for 32+ players.
  5. "Add realistic ballistics" Done in Crysis already (bullets and projectiles have velocity/gravity).
  6. "Heavy weapon has large deviation in case of firing from a hip to avoid Rambo style" Already done.
     MGs need to be deployed (and cannot be ironsighted) to have a low recoil/spread.
  7. "Bullets penetration" Feature already available and currently beging tested out.

Good. As realistic ballistics I also have meant that for example shell from main gun of tank fall right to the cross an you don`t need to raise a barrel then you fire on 200 m distance target as in BF2.

What is currently on our to-do list:
  1. Weapon damage is already 2-3 bullets for rifles. We will add a server-side cvar to change the weapons damage (overall percentage).
  2. The HUD elements will be able to be shown/hidden with server-side cvars.
  3. For hit markers, see 2.
  4. For tagnames, see 2.
  5. Command center for orders given by the squad leader (not sure it will exactly be like in PR, though).
  6. "Add mortar" (feature is on it's way for the next patch in January 2012)

Excelent!
But I want to show mortar in PR (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)
And now, what does the squadleader in PR (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

What we *might* consider later on. Note that we will need at least 3-4 new team members to achieve such features.
  1. "Add Insurgency game mode"
  2. "Improved spawn system"
  3. "Possibility to wear dead enemy cloth for cover operation"

"Improved spawn system" is key point. Other point are not so important but desirable

 
What we cannot do because of technical limitations of the Crysis SDK:
  1. We can't do the medic revive thing. It would be in the game otherwize.
  2. "As much players as possible 64 (128)" We can normally have 64 players, but we could not ever test the game with 30+ players.
     Yet, I guess the Crysis netcode won't handle more than ~64 players.
  3. "More destruction of environment" All we can do is having small chunks of the world that can be destroyed.
     However, we cannot have buildings being compltely destroyable.

1. Reviving. Ok, let`s say it`s impossible. But what if it will be so: if your health is less than f.e. 15% you fall to the earth ant can`t moving and  do anything onlt call for medic (close enemy can also hear your cry and come to finish you). Or a friendly medic can come and heal you and you are ready for fight again.
  2. 64 players are not bad. BF2 and PR basicaly have lots only for 64 players max, but it was upgraded
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 3. Why only small chunks of the world that can be destroyed?
F.e. here we can see mass destruction (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)
Is it possible to make map like Mutrah Sity (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)
or Kokan with destoable building. ()
And it is realy so, all maps in PR have original in real life so to make somethink similar is not a crime.
 

   
Questions:

 
  1. "Add compass and map as in Arma2 or in PR"?
     I never played BF2 nor PR, hence I really do need details on what you mean.

As parkourman have already shown in PR compass is a line with degrees at the bottom of the screen.
And in Arma 2 compass looks like compass in real life (), it`s pop up if you press specific button. It`s more realistic, but not convinient for me personally. So in PR then I am under heavy fire, I quckly look at compass and say my squadteammates from there i`am taking fire.

 
  2. "Possibility to use enemy kits and vehicles"
     Kits? You mean weapons?

Yes. Kit is a set of weapon, equipment and skin for each class of infantry.
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  3. "System of damage for vehicles, system of wounds for infantry"
     You mean that we should be able to kill a vehicle's passengers (if applicable)? If yes, then it's already like this.

not only this. For example, then we shoot to a HMMWV wheel, it is blasted and the car are not able to move. So i wanted the same things but more, f.e. if we  hit specific place at Abrams it c`n`t use optics and so on.

 
  4. "Infantry classes" + "Limited kit"
     Don't understand what you expect. Is it what you would like to see as the different classes' loadout?

Parcourman have already explained

[dolphineye]

Compass:
At the moment, we have the compass integrated with the radar with N/W/E/S icons.
We will see what we can do to have a compass similar to that of PR. It's not looking bad I must agree.

Kits:
When a player dies, they will drop the weapon that was in use.
We cannot drop all the stuff as it leads to physics lags.
Yet, we may drop the primary + secondary weapon upon death.

Vehicles:
It is currently possible to kill a vehicle's passengers - especially in cars and trucks.
It is also possible to blow the tires.
Also if I'm correct, sniper and MG bullets can pierce the cars/trucks shields.

Mortars:
Mortars will not be deployable, but they will be called by squad leaders instead.
Additionnaly, squads leaders will be able to call for air strikes.

Spawn system:
I'm afraid, but we do not plan to change the spawn system at the moment.
Later on, we may think of adding "rally points" on which squad mates will spawn. But it's not well defined in our specs yet.

Reviving:
Our technical issue is related to the game physics that are not synchronized for ragdolls.
Hence, your solution won't work neither. We tried with keyframed animations in the past, but it was looking awful.

--

Note that we're going to release a patch tonight that will include the server-side CVars for the HUD/damage.
The "Casus Belli Beta Server #2 [Hardcore] - Mango" server will now be hardcore, so you will be able to try our hardcore values.

For now, we'll have the hardcore CVars like below:

hud_sv_hitmarkers 0
hud_sv_damage_indicator 1
hud_sv_radar 0
hud_sv_auras 0
hud_sv_ammohealth 0
hud_sv_deathlogs 0
hud_sv_tagnames_team 0
hud_sv_tagnames_objectives 0
hud_sv_tagnames_special 1
hud_sv_vehicles 1
hud_sv_gameplay_helpers 1
g_damage_multiplier 1.0

[Awakened]

 What I don`t like:
1) I had a problem with a tree texture on a first map
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2) Very big sight on AK74U
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3)  I had a feeling that I operate a halving - camera of view is too low, but maybe it`s only my feeling, so it`s only my problem
4) On a map with factories (and other too) I had a feeling that all objects are wider that they should be (or may be shorter)
f.e. casus belli hummer
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crysis hummer
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For me, they are different.

5) I have a physics bug with vehicle. You will see it on this video at 2:30
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(before were wrong video attached, now corrected)

Except this i have a problem with moving backward. It was too slow.

6) Also for me, full avto recoil should be a little bit smaller, but it is the question for weapon experts

7) RPG are useless against Tank. I think they are unbalanced.

8 ) Sprint should be a little bit faster

9) I don`t like all yesterday maps, sorry. They are too small and that is why any tactics on its is unavailable.  There is no chance for teamplay on such maps except one we can see in CS. For my opinion,  maps should be larger and has different ways to reach flags for cover action including. And one more thing, in PR there is an order in which flags are taken it was made special for concentrating players  in one place for heavy fight.
Also all maps I`ve seen are non-destructable, they look like BF2 engine made. Even mortar have`t destroy anything.
Is there any problem to use physics? Lags or something like that?

10) I think machinegunner should be able to aim standing or in crouch positionю Also it is too precise in prone position

11) Also i dont understand: a) How to throw grenade properly, b) can I use enemy vehicles , c) is there any chance for healing if there is no medic in your team?

[parkourman]

@dolphineye
About kits - probably no sense to drop everything.Only main weapon should be awesome.)
A lot of kits in PR got almost same weapon layout,except Automatic Rifleman(LMG) and Sniper/Marksman(Sniper/Designated Marksman Rifle).For example:
Grenadier - M4+M203(AK74M+GP25,or G3A3+HK79 for diffirent factions - different guns),no hand grenade,smoke etc.
Light AT = M4,AT4,hand grenade,smoke etc.
Rifleman = M4,Extra Ammo bag,hand grenade,smoke etc.

Also - IRL rifleman cannot be medic,cuz they don't have too much needed skills to do it.Also anyone can pickup enemy weapon and use it.
Change weapon without change kits was one of hot suggestions on PR-DEV forums.

About revive - if it's hardcode for this engine,lets keep standart system - shooted down = dead

[Awakened]

@dolphineye
About kits - probably no sense to drop everything.Only main weapon should be awesome.)

think it will be more usefull to drop special equpment, AT, epipen, ammo box

[Fabiolo]

1) I had a problem with a tree texture on a first map
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Weird but i don't see any problem on the texture, ok on my computer and many other, if people have same problem, please report and tell us your graphic card.

4) On a map with factories (and other too) I had a feeling that all objects are wider that they should be (or may be shorter)
f.e. casus belli hummer
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crysis hummer
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On your 2 screens, the jeep (LTV) is the same. No reason to see one larger than other, execpt if the fov has been modified on the server meanwhile, but otherwise no reason to see different things on the maps.

9) I don`t like all yesterday maps, sorry. They are too small and that is why any tactics on its is unavailable.

I guess you only played on "intelligence" mode, so yes in this gamemode, the maps are small, made for 10 players short games. If you want tactic maps and bigger, you have to play on the AAS gamemode.

Also all maps I`ve seen are non-destructable, they look like BF2 engine made. Even mortar have`t destroy anything.

Destruction on crysis engine is possible but need a lot of work to make al buildings destructible. If you take the Last frosbyte engine (BF3), the destruction is the reason why we have no sdk (to hard for computer to compute the destructions on map) so you can understand why it's not so easy.

One thing i want to say: please remind we are a small number developpers mod team. We are not a big studio. We made CB with his gameplay, we can change, adapt some things but we won't redo all gameplay. And remember that PR spent 4-5 years to become that it is today, so be realist with your requests please. BTW if a team wants to make an alternative of the mod, more like PR, we will support them, but we can't do that alone.

[Awakened]

Weird but i don't see any problem on the texture, ok on my computer and many other, if people have same problem, please report and tell us your graphic card.

I use 570GTX

On your 2 screens, the jeep (LTV) is the same. No reason to see one larger than other, execpt if the fov has been modified on the server meanwhile, but otherwise no reason to see different things on the maps.

No, I` shown that in CB LTV is uproportionaly horizontal extended and not that one is bigger then another one. But it is for my mind.

I guess you only played on "intelligence" mode, so yes in this gamemode, the maps are small, made for 10 players short games. If you want tactic maps and bigger, you have to play on the AAS gamemode.

Ok.

Destruction on crysis engine is possible but need a lot of work to make al buildings destructible.

So, it is possible, good!

One thing i want to say: please remind we are a small number developpers mod team. We are not a big studio. We made CB with his gameplay, we can change, adapt some things but we won't redo all gameplay. And remember that PR spent 4-5 years to become that it is today, so be realist with your requests please. BTW if a team wants to make an alternative of the mod, more like PR, we will support them, but we can't do that alone.

Guys, nobody says that  PR is ideal and CB must be like it. We only present the ideas we like in games.
What kind of help will be usefull for you? Parkourman can make models. If somebody show me how to make map destructable, I could try to do it. What else?

[Fabiolo]

That i wanted to say is that the LTV in Casus Belli is exactly the same model of crysis for the moment, no modification so it can't be larger.

For the things you ask, we need Coders, mappers, and modelers for models destructed, undestructed.

But as i said, it will be an alternative mod of the mod.

The actual main gameply won't change a lot (except bugs corrections, balance, finalisations and some things not yet implemented but expected)

[Awakened]

That i wanted to say is that the LTV in Casus Belli is exactly the same model of crysis for the moment, no modification so it can't be larger.

For the things you ask, we need Coders, mappers, and modelers for models destructed, undestructed.

But as i said, it will be an alternative mod of the mod.

The actual main gameply won't change a lot (except bugs corrections, balance, finalisations and some things not yet implemented but expected)

Ok. It worths to try. For the begining what models do you need?